Episode 9 : Conversation with Dr. Nozomi Sakata on Learner-Centred Pedagogy in Tanzania

Q: And then can you talk about the significance of a language because in Tanzania, Swahili is the language of choice.

‘Swahili’ is used as a medium of instruction only during primary school, and they switch to English, secondary level

Jul 9
18 min read

Updated: Aug 2

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TRANSCRIPT

Stella Micheong Cheong 00:17

Hello, listeners! Welcome to the episode of Conversations 4 Citizenship! I’m Stella Micheong Cheong from University College London. In today's episode, we will be discussing the concept of learner-centered pedagogy (LCP), which places the student at the forefront of the educational experience. With the rapid changes happening in the world, it is essential for students to develop critical thinking, problem-solving, and communication skills to succeed in their personal and professional lives. This approach encourages students to actively participate in their learning and apply what they have learned in real-world situations. However, the question remains whether this theory can be applied equally in all contexts. We are delighted to have Dr. Nozomi Sakata with us today to discuss the implementation of LCP in Tanzania and explore its features in the African context. Hi, Nozomi. How are you? Thank you for joining us, and now I will hand it over to our host, Kamille.

Kamille Beye 01:44

Thank you, Stella. Good evening, back to Nozomi. I'm so happy to engage with you in this topic of learner-centered pedagogy in the context of Africa. And I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the following questions. So just to start off, can you please give us a little bit of background on exactly what is learner-centered pedagogy?

Nozomi Sakata 02:08

Thanks, Kamille. So, it's very difficult to define learner-centered pedagogy because it's the neglected idea coming from different educational philosophers and theories, mostly based in the West, but that still do not agree to one agreed definition because of a bunch of ideas brought in grounds, but basically, a scholar called Brennan, recently written of written article definition of learner centred pedagogy and the multiple meanings. And he based on a systematic review of different studies on learner-centred pedagogy implemented or studied in different parts of the world. He identified around six characteristics. And based on the context, he argues for something called a flexible approach to learner-centeredness. And so the six characteristics include, for instance, active participation of the students as their products and meeting individual students' needs, skills development, formative assessment and student-teachers-democratic relationships and so on. What Brennan argues is that and this is a very important point that thing that defining learner-centred nests in specific contexts, the meaning of learner-centeredness varies depending on the context. And maybe one culture puts importance of the active participation of students but not a lot necessary democratic student-teacher relationships. And this is very prevalent in say African culture where adults and child, the distance between adults and children is larger relatively compared to say Western culture. So maybe in their context, active participation might happen, but not really power sharing between teachers and students. But it can be still considered learner-centered learner-centered depending on the context. And this was very insightful in a way, because learner- centred pedagogy has been promoted in various parts of the world and notably in GlobalSouth countries. But it has been called like considered universally good pedagogy best practice. And this best practice has been defined in by, say, international organisations, aid agencies. Notably, West-led powers but flexible approaches learner- learner-centred pedagogy are always considered the cultural context, and charity complexities to define learner-centred pedagogy.

Kamille Beye 05:16

Thank you. So I'm just very curious. So since we know that you said this is a neglect idea, and it's has its roots in the West, how did you come to decide that you wanted to research this in Tanzania, particularly, considering I know that they have a background of you, Jama is very communal. So I would love to hear how you got involved with this research. And then how did it how did it flourish really, in this huge context, or did it not flourish?

Nozomi Sakata 05:44

Okay, great. Um, so why I chose Tanzania, particularly when it comes to learner-centered pedagogy, if I go back to my childhood, it's a long story used to dance and different kinds of dance, including hip hop and jazz, and like funk bands and all that. And these kinds of dance, the origin of these kinds of dance is in Africa is set to me. So I've been interested in Africa and African culture particularly. And so when I had a chance to do an internship with UNICEF when I was doing my master's degree study, I could choose a country or region that I wanted to go. And I put my that Tanzania first because my colleagues at that time, recommended it, because Tanzania is safe. And if you got Africa for the first time, they are very friendly to people, they are very friendly. And then the Japanese, they kind of get along with Japanese people, my friend. So I just put Tanzania as my first choice, then that was accepted. So that was my first encounter in Tanzania, not for academic reasons, but it turned out to be a long journey.

Kamille Beye 07:08

That's interesting. And so in your work in Tanzania, were you able to come across schools and see how education was to be implemented, that made you decide to go back and do your PhD? I'm curious as to know how you decided to look at LCP in Tanzania, considering there's a cultural background of the work of Julius Nyererethat's very prevalent in the country.

Nozomi Sakata 07:32

Okay, thanks for writing. So when I was in UNICEF, I was doing work for them to kind of help evaluate their programme, called child-friendly schools, and discharged from the school programme led by UNICEF, embracing similar ideas child centred, learner-centred, the student centred, teaching and learning andI had a chance to go into classrooms and talk to teachers, about their experiences of practising this child centred teaching and learning, which was not as costly implemented, as I observed, but that same time as the literature has also sort of set of the same thing that editor implementation is going on that time. And that's true in my observation and integrates with teachers. And then, so that was my, my internship, but also, that was my master's dissertation on Tanzania's implementation, learner-centred pedagogy, and a few years ago, I embarked on a PhD study on a similar topic, but as you told this time, focusing more on historical education, history of education development in Tanzania, with particular focus on Julius Nyerere, the first president of Tanzania, who promoted this Ujamaa

idea, or African socialism, translated as a communist word. And I experience in Tanzania for the first time as an intern during my master's, and I recognised or observed that Nyererewas everywhere, in Tanzania, are very respected by people. That was my casual observation. And I didn't systematically investigate how Nyerere is perceived by Tanzanian people. But his big picture on shops and restaurants on the bars, and people talked about Nyerere and then I became one interested in what kind of education he promoted and surprising me as I read about Nyereremore his idea of education or education for self-reliance particularly at some similar ideas with learner- centred, such as education very relevant to people's was children's everyday life. And at that time, in agriculture life, Nyerere also suggested that democracy should be cultivated in a school so that when children grow up, they become democratic citizens, very much put important on the connection between schools and community, again, to make it everyday life is kind of within the educational process. So this idea of education for self-reliance, becoming self-reliant citizens, has much show balance, I noted learner-centered pedagogy. So that was a big part of my… became a big part of my Ph.D.

Kamille Beye 11:13

Oh, interesting. And then can you talk about the significance of a language because in Tanzania, Swahili is the language of choice. And it's not a global North language. But there are implications in the learning process. So can you discuss a little bit about that?

Nozomi Sakata 11:29

Yeah, so ‘Swahili’ is used as a medium of instruction only during primary school, and they switch to English, secondary level, and there's very much debates between pros and cons of switching it. But for primary education, at least, Nyerere also was a key figure to disseminate. So theory language to unite Tanzania as a whole Tanzania has hundreds, 120 I think ethnic groups are more, and they do speak different languages. But Nyererewas determined to make Swahili as a national language to unite the team, the people in Tanzania after independence. So that was pretty much still appreciated in Tanzanian society, and different from other neighbouring countries like Kenya, Swahili, that's never miss action in primary school.

Kamille Beye 12:40

So then, can I ask you more about how you think the concepts of Nyererecan be transferred to maybe a global society? So I think, we talked about this idea of self-reliance, and the idea that there's equity and equality in the education process. And I want to know how you think those concepts can be incorporated into a larger discussion outside of Tanzania regards education, education of access, etc.

Nozomi Sakata 13:07

Interesting, although Nyerere… So, this idea of education for self-reliance is appreciated. It had very little real implementation at that time. And in the current society, there are big debates about ESR, education for self-reliance and a much bigger idea with ‘Ujamma’ as some sort of failed policy, because he was idealistic, but not realistic. And even during the Nyerere time, and Nyerere himself notes it recognised that Ujamma was not implemented. So when it comes to translating the idea to outside of the world, I'm not sure how realistic it is because it has not been implemented in Tanzania at the time and this time too. But still, people still appreciate it and when I talk with Tanzanian people about Ujamma about Nyerere himself, about ESR, education for self-reliance, and people very much respecting these policies and that ideologyNyererepromoted. But there was a big gap between the practice and the idea.

Kamille Beye 14:43

I find that to be interesting, because you know, now that they're having this, there's lots of decolonial movements in Africa right now. And when people talk about going back to African education, they often talk about Steve Biko to talk about Nyerereand I think it's very interesting to know that the practice that in your a promoted was really not actively done in Tanzania. So then can I ask you a question so he can about the ideas around LCP and this idea that, of course, there's flexibility and you say active student approach? But we know that in Africa, children do not have the same voice that they may have in Western context. So did you see any reconciliation of maybe our picture's worth allowing students to have more voice in the classroom, the classroom setting or not?

Nozomi Sakata 15:34

I think that lenses are really a pertinent question, a very, very important question, because the researcher says yes, as you said, that there is not much cultural foundation for LCP to be implemented. Because of this teacher, students, of different status, and students has to show respect to teachers. They can't argue against what the teachers are saying, etc. But for me, or using this flexible approach to LCP defining learner-centered pedagogy, if they go back to our conversation at the beginning LCP can be defined in their own life context. And even if you don't have much, learner- centre related elements of teacher, student teacher with Democratic relationships and LCP can perhaps still not have as LCP can still happen. It might not be called LCP depending on the context, but perhaps learner-centered or more students and child centred teaching and learning can still happen and see with him very much very much as long guides one or more of the six characteristics of learner- centred pedagogy, might happen in classrooms, and I see that that definition of learner centred pedagogy has a really wide contribution, because in Tanzania and context at least overlaps between historically nurtured ideas of pedagogy based on education for self-reliance. And as I said, there seem to be some overlaps between what is called learner-centred pedagogy largely in the Western definition, and what Nyereresuggested to be good teaching and learning and when I talk with people who currently living in the current society, they are still appreciating this idea of Ujamaa and education for self-reliance. So, I see the Ujamma within the current society in Tanzania and if that's how some common ground with learner-centred pedagogy was,perhaps Tanzania has the cultural ground or some compatibility with LCP.

Kamille Beye 18:29

So you mentioned that LCP was really brought in by the international community in different NGOs. So, do Tanzania universities teach that in their teacher training programme? Are they teaching LCP? Are they incorporating and methodology and pedagogic practices of the teachers before they go to school?

Nozomi Sakata 18:48

They teach, but very theoretical level. So, Tanzania's Teacher Education Policy stipulates how important it is to practice learner-centred pedagogy and teacher education that's tried to teach the pre-service and in-service teachers, the elements of learner-centred pedagogy, but based primarily on what is considered as learner-centred pedagogy by these big organisations. And the teacher education itself is set to be theoretical and it's not translated into practical classroom practice. If you go into primary schools, then primarily looking at primary schools, I can't speak of secondary school and higher education. But at least in primary education, teacher do seem to understand some aspects of learner-centred pedagogy and its important for them importance, but it still is not practiced. That's the kind of practice or game practice and policy gap. Yeah.

Kamille Beye 20:12

So if it's not practicing, would you say it's effective?

Nozomi Sakata 20:15

Again, going back to the definition’s problems, it doesn't seem to be effective. But if we rely on that definition, on what is considered learner-centred pedagogy adds universally effective pedagogy as promoted by aid agencies and international organisations. But I still see the potential of bringing culturally relevant ways of teaching and learning based on some aspects of education for self-reliance. It can be effective, it's not, it's not happening yet. But if we rely on our, if we define LCP, based on their notion of what is good education, they might come up with some aspects of learner-centred pedagogy, but it's, it's really up to the people of Tanzania, how to make it effective. And again, there are many problems, so defining effectiveness too.

Kamille Beye 21:21

Very much so I wanted to let my colleagues get in here and ask a couple of questions. And I wanted to know if Adam or Stella, do you have any questions for Nozomi? Adam?

Adam Peter Lang 21:32

thank you very much for Nozomi. That's very interesting. And I'm just interested, just asking a bit more about your positionality, obviously, from what Kamille was talking about, coming in a very interesting way, because our podcast is listened to by a range of people, and a number of them are asking questions about this very question of where did they go and do their research? How do they get access and so on? So I just wondered, reflecting back when your experience, did you, were there any sort of biases that you inherently had as a Japanese scholar going into Tanzania? Or did you feel who in turn was writing up his thesis you needed to reflect on that? And what would you say to people who are thinking of doing research in the global south in areas that are under research, which desperately need research? I just wondered if you had any reflections on that. And then if you might just quickly say about access as well sounds as though you did work in the primary schools because many of our colleagues are very interested in access, and how they gain that, I just wondered, if you might reflect on those two points. Thank you so much.

Nozomi Sakata 22:38

Thank you, Adam.Yes, I do acknowledge myself by the Japanese outsider, Tanzania, and very much privileged position related to the people whom I talked to him. And I feel that suddenly when I go into primary schools and talk with kids, and also teachers, and parents, community people, too, and it is difficult to kind of… might to gauge it because it comes with, who is myself was as a female researcher, and perhaps the highly educated, speak and say English and very colonial language, do speak very basic Swahili, but not to the extent that I can interview in Swahili. So, when I got to Tanzania, I was always with my colleague, who is native, and whom I met during my Ph.D. as a research assistant. And they're kind of pros and cons of debates about doing research with research assistants. But I see being with between myself and this person, sort of not mitigate, but they could be the bridge between myself and the people who I met in Tanzania. I do feel that I as an outsider. But as I go to Tanzania again and again, and some of the primary schools that visited several times, they nurture relationships with each other as a visitor and several times. It's a difficult question for the research.

Adam Peter Lang 24:42

would you reframe your experience reflecting on it, which you've done so well, they're encouraged people perhaps sometimes to research. Understand that there outside is but actually, I can add extra dynamic content to what you're looking at, for what you're saying.

Nozomi Sakata 24:58

Yeah, I do like to encourage people, but I think I see more of a potential in international cooperation, doing research, who is my colleague from that country, not us going into that thing and extracting the data and all that. But having characters from there and then do research, conceptualise the research from the beginning and go into data correction together and analyse that together, interpret it, and then bring different again, experience and then our gent perhaps, the interpretation put on the table discussing it. So more collaborative research should be I think,

Adam Peter Lang 25:54

yes, that's very interesting what you say there. Thank you so much.

Nozomi Sakata 25:59

Thank you.

Stella Micheong Cheong 26:00

Thank you, Nozomi,for the rich and insightful presentation. Today's conversation exactly reminded me of our conversation while we studying, while were working together at IOE, several years ago.

Nozomi Sakata 26:16

A couple of years ago!

Stella Micheong Cheong 26:20

In terms of self-reliance or education for self-reliance is very interesting because North Korean ruling ideology is Juche ideology, which means ‘self-reliance’ ideology, so the North Korean government also emphasised education for self-reliance that I heard the government, North Korean government’s education for self-reliance affects the several countries in the Sub Saharan Africa. But anywho, I'd like to hear more about your methodological framework, which is the 'Transversal–Vertical–Horizontal Case Study.' So, can you give additional or extra information about your research methodology, why you chose the mixed method, and I think a detailed explanation of this methodology, just give the stories or insights that you were unable to include in your thesis or you put this would be very helpful to our listeners.

Nozomi Sakata 27:45

Okay, thanks, Stella. Yeah, so, methodology in my doctoral research was a big part of, I hope and I wanted to make some sort of methodological contribution and one of it, one of them was that mixed method was rarely used in the study of learner-centred pedagogy in Global South, and especially when it comes to so it's very qualitative research is prevalent whenLCP in global assaults and by combining, as you said, Stella, I combined mixed method with something called comparative case study with Transversal, historical Vertical and Horizontal comparisons. This framework of the comparative case study nearly highlighted the importance of looking at history and in my case Nyerere and Ujamma and how Tanzanian parts incorporated the idea of learner-centred pedagogy throughout their Education Development were very pertinent and that helps the comparative case study framework to me a lot, sort of putting this historical perspective on the table. Yeah, so and vertical axis looks at policy different policy levels of international, national and local and how should I cooperate between different policy levelsare and horizontal to compare on, The horizontal axis compares different schools, and different types of schools in distinctive locations. So, these three axes were very helpful to use for the framing of research design as mixed methods and why I used mixed methods because I thought neither quantitative nor qualitative research alone can encapsulate the picture of pedagogy. When you look at pedagogy most of the research on learner-centred pedagogy has been based on looking at teaching practices and talking to teachers or teachers' experiences and their thoughts about learner-centred pedagogy, so focusing on teaching and teachers. But when it comes to pedagogy, it's not only the act of teaching, which is an Alexander defines the definition of pedagogy is now a different definition. But it's not only the act of teaching but also an increase in different aspects of society and culture, including barriers, traditions, how people live, and how people relate to each other. To look at this broad dimension of pedagogical elements through using mixed methods, a variety of methods, including observations, interviews, surveys, and discussions with children, and looking at their exam results and use of different methods will be to kind of help me understand a broad meaning of pedagogy in the Tanzanian context. So that's the reason why mixed method is mixed method.

Stella Micheong Cheong 31:35

Any behind stories?

Nozomi Sakata 31:36

Yeah, there are a lot. So doing doctoral research takes years different things happen, and you as a person will be a different person a few years ago, when you embarked on Ph.D., and when you go to the field, that situation that you imagined was very much different perhaps and also, in this time of sort of now post-COVID. But during the COVID, you would need to change research design, I think I remained very flexible in terms of who I am, such as my epistemological and ontological positions, but also plan for fieldwork was not as I could actually do. So my research questions, research design, conceptual framework, also methodological framework have changed over the course of my Ph.D. The nitty-gritty of how method and this process wise, I put it in, in publication, mixed methods, journal of the mixed methods, I could go into the detail, but I think it's important to be to remain flexible of the process of research. And it doesn't have to be limited to doctoral research. But I think by doing research from now on, I was able to be flexible, and keep myself!

Stella Micheong Cheong 33:19

Thank you Nozomi, That’s brilliant! Do you want to share or mention anything to do with your work that has not yet come up?

Nozomi Sakata 33:29

And so I guess I did talk about a bit of my current projects in relation to Kamille’s question. So after my doctoral research, I became more interested in what is sort of valued pedagogy in Tanzania and beyond. So I'm now interested in more about establishing some sort of approach to what is valued by people in terms of pedagogy, and what has been valued historically. And also, what is valued outside of lacking the international community. Basically, it's learner-centred pedagogy, but I see a possibility or the common ground between these three elements. So, I would love to compare this approach. We are in different contexts, and now I'm doing research in Tanzania, with colleagues in Kenya, in Ghana, and not only in Africa. I will be visiting Mexico this year to do a comparative study between Sub-Saharan Africa and Latin America. So that's sort of my current project. Yeah, thanks for asking.

Kamille Beye 35:00

That's exciting. We're going to give you the wrap-up this episode, I'm going to turn it over to Adam to close this out.

Adam Peter Lang 35:07

Well, thank you very much. There are so many. It's been very interesting. And you started our conversation talking about dance music. And I would just urge your listeners to look at your thesis because it starts with a reference to music. Yeah. And it's from that point onwards. It's a very interesting read, I found it very interesting and fascinating. And what you've just said at the end there about your work now shows how your work is dovetailing into a much wider basis and very interesting too. So we're going to follow you very, very closely. So I thank you very much for your time. And thank you so much for joining us here today on conversations4citizenship. I'm going to close the episode now on Adam Adam Peter Lang from UCL. And I'd like to thank everybody for listening to conversations4 citizenship. And we hope you all have enjoyed the episode. Be sure to subscribe to conversations4 citizenship and look for us in various ways on Twitter Twitter @c4c_ed (conversations4citizenship), and a transcript of today's conversation with Dr. Nozomi Sakata can be found on www.conversations4citizenship.com. And in the upcoming episodes, because we're a dynamic group, always looking to interview new people. We're going to be having a conversation with Dr. Tony Breslin, who is a director at the Breslin Public Policy Limited. So, this episode of conversations4citizenship was produced by me, Adam, Kamille Beye, Rowena Palacios, and Stella Cheong, recorded and sound mixed by Dain Jeong. Thank you all so very much. Goodbye!

EPISODE NOTES

In today's episode with Dr. Nozomi Sakata, Assistant Professor of the Center for the Study of International Cooperation in Education at Hiroshima University in Japan. We had a conversation with her on the intricacies of learner-centered pedagogy (LCP) within the Tanzanian context. Dr. Sakata explores the cultural nuances that influence the implementation of LCP, particularly in Global South contexts where traditional norms may conflict with the pedagogy's participatory ethos. Throughout the episode, she also discusses the qualifications educators need to effectively incorporate LCP into their teaching methods. The conversation extends to the legacy of educational systems in Tanzania, influenced by both colonial history and the vision of Julius Nyerere, the first president of the United Republic of Tanzania. In particular, Dr. Sakata sheds light on the impact of disinformation campaigns on education during the COVID-19 pandemic in Tanzania, offering a critical lens through which to examine the resilience and adaptability of educational frameworks.

This episode is hosted by Kamille Beye, Rowena Azada-Palacios, Adam Peter Lang, and Stella Micheong Cheong. Please subscribe to the podcast through Apple, Google, Spotify, or Amazon Music. You may also follow @c4c_ed on Twitter. We look forward to hearing your feedback. If you would like to explore participating in our podcast, do not hesitate to reach out through the online participation form or email us at info@conversations4citizenship.com.

Further Reading List

Sakata, N. (2023). Embracing the messiness in mixed methods research: The craft attitude. Journal of Mixed Methods Research, 17(3), 288-307.
Sakata, N., Winston-Proctor, C. E., & Harris, L. T. (2023). Decolonising higher education: Black and Minority Ethnic students’ experiences at an elite British university. Cambridge Journal of Education, 53(3), 397-411.
Sakata, N. (2022). Is learner-centred pedagogy associated with pupils’ positive attitudes towards learning? The case of Tanzania. Compare: A Journal of Comparative and International Education, 1-19.
Sakata, N. (2022). Learner-Centred Pedagogy in the Global South: Pupils and Teachers’ Experiences. Taylor & Francis.