Episode 9_Bangladesh's Democratic Uprising: Insights from MP Rupa Huq and Ajmain Naklib on the Power of Youth Activism and Diaspora

Jul 10
32 min read

Updated: Aug 2

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TRANSCRIPT

Stella Micheong Cheong 00:00

Hello everyone, welcome to the episode of Conversations4Citizenship! I am your host, Stella Micheong Cheong from Yonsei University. Today, we delve into the extraordinary events that have recently unfolded in Bangladesh. Over the past two weeks, the nation has experienced a seismic shift in its political landscape, culminating in the resignation of the Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina, after 15 years of authoritarian rule. This dramatic turn of events was sparked by widespread student protests that escalated into deadly clashes with government forces. The power of youth activism has once again proven to be a formidable force for change, echoing similar movements across the globe. Yet, despite its significance, this powerful democratic uprising in Bangladesh remains largely unknown to the world. To unpack a pivotal moment in history, we are honored to have with us Dr. Rupa Huq, a Member of Parliament in the UK with deep connections to the Bangladeshi diaspora, and Md Ajmain Adil Naklib, a young environmentalist at the forefront of this movement in Dhaka. Together, they will provide us with invaluable insights into the birth of a new democratic era in Bangladesh, the role of global citizenship in shaping these events, and the implications for the region and beyond.

Stella Micheong Cheong 00:00

Hi, Dr, Rupa and Ajmain and Subham. How are you doing?

Rupa Huq 00:05

Yeah, pretty well. Thanks.

Ajmain Naklib 00:06

Thank you, Stella for the very nice introduction. (Thank you)

Subham Barua 00:12

Thank you so much.

Stella Micheong Cheong 00:14

Yeah. Thank you for joining us. So, let's buckle up for a fascinating conversation about the future of Bangladesh! I am going to pass over to Dr. Adam!

Adam Peter Lang 00:28

Well, thank you very much, Stella, and it's I'm really looking forward to this episode of conversations for citizenship and Rupa and Ajman. Thank you so much for joining us here today on conversations for citizenship. We and our eclectic mix of listeners, we've got academics, teachers, researchers, practitioners and scholars are going to be very interested in your upcoming contributions to our discussion. It's going to be a conversation about what has recently taken place and is now happening in Bangladesh, and certainly, as Stella said in her introduction, where I'm sitting in London, in the West, it's been a very unreported story. So we're fascinated to find out more. So perhaps Dr. Rupa Huq and Ajmain. I'm going to ask why our listeners are very interested in your sort of story, your backdrop. We don't want to go into too much detail. That'll come through in the questions. But maybe we could start with Rupa, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself, perhaps, but about your background? I know. We know that you were an academic before you became an MP, something about that. Could you start off for us, Rupa?

Rupa Huq 01:37

thanks. Adam, yeah, I was, I'm currently an MP Member of Parliament, and I represent a chunk of West London, including Adam. I'm his MP, as it happens, but I wasn't always doing this job. For many years, I was an academic. I taught sociology at Kingston University prior to being elected. Before that, I've been at University of Manchester. The stuff I researched was youth culture and political movements, things like in the 90s, there was the criminal justice Bill protests, the raver’s response. So I was into pop music and youth culture, and then accidentally got elected. But I mean, the background that you ask about Adam, I'm from Bangladeshi origins. It didn't the country is quite a young country. It didn't exist when my parents came to the UK in the 60s. But I mean since their time, 1971 it had independence, and one of only four Bangladeshi origin MP means that my inbox every it feels like every worldwide Bangladeshi write in when anything happens. So I get the temperature of what's going on through that. I mean, I don't have a huge Bangladeshi electorate myself, but no, there are some. I mean, I think they tend to be in East London more than West London. So anyway, that's a small biography of me.

Adam Peter Lang 03:03

Well, thank you. Rupa, we're going to come back and delve into that more in a moment. But Ajmain, I think you on your CV, you put yourself down as an environmentalist student, but I mean, you're much more than that. We know, and you've been very busy in the last months and weeks. But can you just tell us a little about your background to start with?

Ajmain Naklib 03:23

Yeah, thank you. Adam, so I'm a very young graduate. I graduated in 2022, from college with a major in environmental management. And then, you know, during my undergrad, I worked for, I worked at Bangladesh Environmental Law Association, which is shortly called BELLA. It's a very renowned organization in Bangladesh that takes the government and big companies and other polluters to the court to ensure environmental justice for the people of Bangladesh. So after my graduation, I started working here full time, and so far, I have been involved with different movements, different events that Bill has organized. I've been, you know, in most of the events, I've been the person behind the camera, because, you know, I would consider myself an organizer than someone who's at the forefront. That is something I prefer. And yeah, so right now I would say I'm an MA candidate at the University of Sussex. I'm going to start my master's next month in the UK. So yeah, I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, that that's pretty much it. I'm going to major in environment development policy, so I'm really looking forward to that.

Adam Peter Lang 04:49

Yeah, well, we'll come back to that a little bit more in a minute. But thank you so much, both of you for introducing yourselves now. Rupa, I'm going to go back and just ask you a bit about your work as an MP you've touched on that. With the particularly with the Bangladeshi diaspora. I think I read somewhere, is it about 70,000 Bangladeshis in the UK? And you said they're mostly in the east part of London. But can you just explain a little bit more about that for a space and how that's impacted in how you see what's going on in Bangladesh at the moment?

Rupa Huq 05:24

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's a country where a lot of the population is overseas, not only in the UK because of the colonial ties, but also in those sort of Emirati places. When I was last there in May. I don't go very often, but I was there very recently. And I think that's also why I mean, I guess since I was elected in 2015 I deliberately did not want to make myself. MP for Bangladeshi diaspora of select. My parents aren't from Select. That's the region. Most of the ones in the UK come from there, but minor from a place called Pubna in the north, as it happens. But anyway, I sort of wanted to make a conscious decision not to take on all the weight of the world of all these but just having seen it very recently, and thinking, oh, there's something not quite right here, this feels like a very militarized police state, one party state, weird hero worship going on of one individual, all dating back to the 1971 mythology. I think so, up to now. I tried to keep out of this. But I think, because I've been so recently, I think isn't the number 600,000 or let me get back to you with the number. I think there's an official number, and then there's probably unofficial number as well. But yeah, a lot of them in the Middle East. So last time I was there, it was actually a Middle Eastern plane. It was Qatar. I think there's a mixture of Qatar and British Airways, two different planes. But you could see on the plane loads of people, the Qatar London leg, sorry, the Qatar Bangladesh leg. I think lots of people that are sent to be, you know, basically, sorry, it's not a nice way, but lower orders, labor building, things like, I don't know, the stadiums for the World Cup most recently. So, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of Bangladeshis worldwide, and it's an odd country because it's got small land mass. I think it's the same size as England and Wales, but there's 175 million people there, and a lot of people scattered. And it's a country of contradictions. So yeah, as I say, I tried to keep out of it, but just something keeps drawing me back, especially as I've seen it recently. And these are really momentous event. People are talking about a Bangladesh 2.0 that is a second liberation, that the whole thing is refreshing and restarting. So I think it just got too big for me to ignore this time.

Adam Peter Lang 07:52

NO, and that's very interesting. How you described your involvement as an MP up until this particular point, but you didn't ignore it. You wrote an article which for the London anything standard, which I understand. I mean, you only wrote that couple of weeks ago. I think has gone viral, hasn't it? Um, tell us a little bit about why you you've hinted at why you chose to wrote, write that. What is the context of that? What do you what? What sort of were you trying to say in that article, which has been so well received,

Rupa Huq 08:24

I think it's partly what you said, Adam, that there's a real thirst for knowledge around this. So I also had, just before Parliament broke, in fact, a week before the fall of the sheik Hasina regime. On that Monday, I did a sort of public meeting on the subject, and they had to turn people away. It was so oversubscribed. The House of Commons, authorities, I had to have a meeting the next day with the Sergeant at Arms, who's a very top official in there, saying, Don't you be doing that again? Because literally, the room could not hold the capacity of people who are interested in this subject. And we had Amnesty International. We had a barrister who has represented some of these disappeared people. I mean, really bad stuff was going on towards the end of that last regime, extrajudicial killings. So we had four people, someone a newspaper editor from East London. It's a Bengali language newspaper, and an academic from SOAS. So there was a panel of four people, yes. So as I said, with this big diaspora, there's a lot of people want to know what's going on, but there has been, remember, communications blackouts, where, I mean, our colleagues here from Tucker can tell us more that they literally shut off the internet and phone signals so people can't communicate with each other or the outside world. My cousins were sending me messages by VPN. I think there's always some kind of way around it, but that's only if you're an elitist person. You know what VPN is? And yeah, so the article I just wanted to say a bit about. About what was going on. I mean, the aspect They latched on to was whether Sheik casinos should be allowed to come here next. They specifically said, Can you add something on that? And I didn't massively want to start a fight on that. But personally, I feel we know immigration is a sensitive topic in the UK. At the moment, there's been race riots in this country in the month of July. I just think it would be unwise to give such a high-profile person safe passage here at this precise moment, so that that was a sentence within a much longer article about how really, it's the Gen zers, I think they're called, but have led all this. It's a young country only existed since 1971 and it's the youth who, you know, even in the cricket victory the other day, I think the team said that this is for the youth who's, you know, taken on, have the guts to take on a dictatorship. So, yeah, the article was meant to be a little description of what was going on, but the sentence really latched on was that she shouldn't be allowed here.

Adam Peter Lang 11:05

No. And I think cricket match, you beat Pakistan. Is that right? Bangladesh beat Pakistan. I think Can I just ask AJ min, have you heard Have you been able to see her in Bangladesh? Any of Rupert's articles or anything this Evening Standard Report, and is she been picked up in your country as somebody that's commentating on these things?

Ajmain Naklib 11:30

I'm just going to, you know, start from what Dr. Rupa have mentioned regarding, you know, the internet blackout. And you know, there were articles, there were some coverages in the news. But what happened was, you know, as Dr Rupa have mentioned, you know it, it started to get a lot of attention after the internet blockade. And right after that, I was in Thailand from 10 July to 20 July. So I landed right in the middle of an internet blocking and also curfew and the information I was getting back when I was in Thailand. You know, it was very different from the information I was getting in the national media. When I landed here, it was mostly, you know, prop it was, you know, the the media was working as a propaganda machine for the government.

Adam Peter Lang 12:33

that still the case in your country?

Ajmain Naklib 12:35

No, Right now it is not. Right now. It is not. But, you know, I think Dr Rupa article started to get and, you know, start to get more attention during the very last phase of the of the protest. And just like many other news coverage of many of the news that were being covered was not even available to us because we were in the middle of a curfew and we're in the middle of our intern blockade. But yeah, I mean, most of the people here who got to know about the article really appreciated what Dr Rupa has done. Yeah.

Adam Peter Lang 13:09

Okay, thank you. Well, you've both sort of talked about the next area that I was going to go into, which is actually commentating and writing at all levels, whether you're a student or whether you're an MP has with it certain ramifications, Rupa you've touched on that, do you feel at any point that that you have to be careful or sensitive to what you say and write at the Moment?

Rupa Huq 13:38

I mean, definitely it's been joked, oh, you'll never be allowed back in there again with some of the actions that I have taken. So as I say, I tried to avoid it. But these constituents of mine in Ealing, actually, they're related to shahidulalam. In fact, it's the sister of shahidulalam. Is a Bengali doctor. It's a husband and wife, Doctor couple, but the wife, her brother, is this. He was a photo journalist, and in an earlier student protest, I think 2018 and I think those were school students about traffic or something, he took photos, and he was sort of tortured and imprisoned, and they contacted me and said, Can you say something about this in the British Parliament? And I did, and it was mentioned, oh my god, you won't be allowed back in May, you know. And the first time I tried to go back was this May, and I have to say, the high commission wasn't exactly forthcoming with my visit visa, it was, and I think that's because they know what I know. And I'd like to think now that there's this new government, it will be fine, but people there had a lot worse. You know that I think it's come out about this torture chamber, the island corps of the mirror room, where people literally some of the BBC bungler. Show an interview. Somebody that had a knock on the door was taken away, bundled in a van, blindfolded, tied up with no light, no air for, you know, not proper food. And this went on for five years in the case of this gentleman whose interview I saw in BBC, bungler. So all these things are just coming out now. So you know, me having a bit of length of time for the visa is probably small compared to this, but it did feel like obstructiveness was going on. And it was put to me that, I don't know, it felt like score settling. It was put to me that Keir Starmer didn't congratulate Sheik Hasina in January, and the High Commissioner said, was that you and I said, No, I mean, I did not directly, do you know? I mean, it felt like and also this said that the Speaker of Bangladesh had to pay for her own visa, and it took ages. And that's actually what happened to me. I don't know if I was being punished because of some other stuff I had nothing to do with. But anyway, I'd like to think there's a new climate where people, because even things like cartoons, were banned for a long time, as far as I can understand. I mean, I don't know that's what I want to hear from our colleagues here, how much of this is true, but there's been exhibitions of cartoons and lots of graffiti which would not have been allowed before.

Adam Peter Lang 16:18

Well, if I may, can I just ask Ajmain that. I mean, the question really is about how confident you feel safe you feel about commentating on what's going on in your country? Obviously, we're interested in before, but we're also interested in what's going on now. Ajman, do you want to just make a answer to that sort of questions?

Ajmain Naklib 16:39

Sure, sure. Firstly, I would want to shed some light on iron ore, which is like a mule room, which, you know, it's not just one room in Bangladesh. It's like, you know, there are several room in very secret areas where, you know, people used to get forcefully detained. And, you know, the family members of the individuals who were forcefully disappeared they, you know, they wouldn't know where that individual used to, you know, be kept. So I know who they are. You know it's like it did not see the public eye for a very long time. You know, when I was younger in the previous regime, not the in the previous regime, before Sheik Athena, we used to see individuals when they used to get detained. We used to be a bit reassured that, okay, we know where the individual is, is probably in the police station, or maybe somewhere else. The individuals or the families of the individual used to know where they're kept, but during the during more than a decade, you know, if someone gets detained, they used to get forcefully disappeared. And there's something that you know even did not happen, you know, in the previous regimes, or even in the, you know, the previous autocratic regime during irshad in the night in the 1980s it was not very prevalent. The current political situation right now is so much better because we can literally see so many protests happening because it's like, you know, it the emotion and the words of people got suppressed for so long now. People are, you know, on the street every single day, demanding something new every single day. And obviously this is also causing some disturbances in terms of governance. For Professor Yunus, because just two days back, there was this protest that is, or that was organized by a paramilitary group, because they had their own demands from the interim government. But at one point, they start attacking the, you know, some of the student coordinators of the you know, student movement, even though you know it was in the middle of the negotiation. And at one point when you know, there was a Facebook post where everyone was told to gather in front of the Secretariat where the negotiation was going on, more than 1000 people in the in the span of around 30 minutes. They just gathered to protect the, you know, student coordinators to fight back. But there was open fire. Some students got injured, but however, it was taken under control, and after that, Professor Yunus has banned any form of movement or any form of public gathering in front of the office, because they also need time to fix the mess that was created by the previous government. Obviously, the previous government. Has created a lot of mess. The interim government will need time. But you know, especially as environmentalist, I see a lot of hope, because there, say there is one Hassan in the she got allocated in the Environment Ministry of Environment for some climate change. We see her as a hope for good environmental governance and so many other people who are very educated and very renowned for their work.

Adam Peter Lang 20:27

Thank you. And can I just ask you again, it's been poorly reported in many places, but Yeah, is there a sort of number, a figure, of students, particularly, that were killed in the uprising, in the protests before the government changed in that last period. It's not clear.

Ajmain Naklib 20:47

It's not clear yet. No, no, no. There's still investigation going on. Yeah, it's not clear yet.

Adam Peter Lang 20:55

Would your judgment be? There would be many or or not.

Ajmain Naklib 21:01

There are still arguments regarding, you know, whether it's more than 1000 or less than 1000. You know, the PBS government had a very different number, which was obviously lesser. But, you know, after the fall of the PBS regime, we started to get to know so many individuals who got injured but did not get reported. Because, you know, many of these students who got injured, they would not go to see seek help from the doctor, because if they seek help from the doctor, they have a high possibility that that individual would get, you know, arrested from there, because the police is everywhere. And we really did not have Bangladesh police. You know, even from 1971 till now, we never really had Bangladesh police. We had our Malik police, BNP police, like police of the parties and, you know, our previous generation had jatiyo party police, the police of the previous autocratic regime. But we never really saw any Bangladesh police. So we never really had any state or trust in the police. And I also got to know about this, one of these, you know, two of the coordinators who were taking medical help from gono, shasto Kendra, which is like which is one of the hospitals that are very people, like poor people friendly and people friendly. It was established by a very renowned politician, Dr. Zafola Choudhary. Two of the students got taken away from that hospital after they got to know the students were taking medical help from there. So the police was totally against the students, and there's one of the reasons we still do not know any concrete number.

Adam Peter Lang 22:51

Well, Ajmain, thank you very much for that. Now, just returning to the podcast, because our podcast, we're in our third season now we look at many geopolitical events and dynamics, often trying to focus on what some people call a global south. We don't really like that term, but we're looking at areas that aren't covered so much. We've looked at things like the rise of populism, the impact of the pandemic, nationalism and so on, what it actually means to be a citizen. I'm just going to ask this question; do you think Bangladesh has been some through some sort of what we might term revolution in the last month? Do you think it's significant? Or is it both of you? Rupa, what would you what would you say? Is it? How do you see it playing out and its impact at the moment?

Rupa Huq 23:41

Yeah. I mean, it's definitely seismic stuff going on. We don't know what will happen next, because now it's this strange limbo of because, technically it's a temporary interim government that's going to preside over fresh elections. The thing is, if there were fresh elections today. As has been alluded to the it used to be two different parties that alternate, actually two women with the one, it was her dad. One, it was her husband. That they were big in 1971 and so I think this whole history thing, I don't know, that's why it's refreshing that it's young people that aren't bound up by those memories anymore. So, yeah, I think it is a really big deal when the history books are written. It is a big turn happening, but we don't know what's happening yet. If there's an election today, the other lot, the BNP. I mean, hilariously, there's a British National Party, not the same thing, the Bangladesh National Party. Anyway, the one in our country is sort of far right, repatriation type of party. This is not the same thing. Anyway, those guys, you know, they, lots of people say they're both as bad as each other. They used to alternate. But then I think things got very stuck in the groove with lots of rigged elections that it seemed impossible. And I think it's fairly standard for one side to put the other side in prison when they're in power. I think really, it's time to smash that old geology, get away from the ghosts of 1971 I found it creepy when I was there that the so called Father of the Nation, the first prime minister, Sheik, has seen his dad. I mean, who, you know, undoubtedly played a big role in all this, but I found it a bit too much that his portrait was everywhere, his statues and even that sort of, it's a Muslim country as well. It's un Islamic to have that level of hero worship of one individual. So I think those things need getting away. And you know, I've heard Sheik Hasina speak, it's always about her family, her family being wiped out. Her and her sister were the only ones that remained. I mean, obviously it's a very deeply affecting thing for her, but we need to focus on the future, is what I'm trying to

Adam Peter Lang 28:15

say. Yeah, no. And Ajmain, you're actually sort of living through it, aren't you? You're actually there. Sometimes it's quite hard when you're there to sort of take a step back and think about the significance. But are you thinking, along with your fellow students there, that you're part of something quite seismic, as Rupa said,

Ajmain Naklib 28:35

Yeah, of course, of course. I mean, during the last 15 years, we have seen how you know the judiciary, the administrative and you know the law enforcement, every single institution was capitalized and they were held captive by the ruling government. I think this whole protest has shown individuals what unity can do. When I was on the ground in the protests, I think one of the most beautiful thing about the protests where, you know, the far, far right, the far left, the left, the right, the centrist, every single individual, they came together. They were helping each other, that there was this one student who was whose name was mugdu, he got shot and he died, and, you know, he he died while, you know, providing water to the other protesters, and every single person had each other's back. And this is something they all have realized, that in order to fight against any common enemy, they have to be together. Literally, everyone kept their political view, their social view, the religious view, aside, and all of them stood on the ground to have each other's back. They were fighting. And I think. One of the reasons this protest was so fruitful is because we have now more access to information. When I was younger, I used to be fed all this information that was very, very manipulated regarding different timelines of Bangladesh. It was very, very biased. Obviously, you know, and history books kept on changing depending on the regime, so it was very biased. But, you know, because of our access to information, we had, you know, in the internet, we could find some books that were banned by the regime. So that helped the individuals a lot. And these were circulating a lot during the last phase of the protest. These helped people understand the corruption, the wrongdoings of the current regime a lot. And I think this is where you know, everyone had a very common ground, and it was easier because everyone had one common enemy, which was a Sasha fitting. Yeah,

Adam Peter Lang 31:09

good. Well, I pick up a couple of words that you mentioned. It beautiful. You mentioned in your description of that and the power of youth, because there's a famous quote. I can't remember who said it now, but youth is wasted on the young. That's certainly not true in your case, or in what's going on in your country at the moment. And I just wanted to ask a couple more questions before I bring my colleagues in, and there will be a chance for you, by the way, we won't ask it now, but for you to reference for us, so we can put it on our website, any influences that you have, writers, commentators are that people can go to find more information out about. But I just go back to both of you.

31:50

Do you see this playing out in the wider region?

Adam Peter Lang 31:54

I think in season two, we did a session with some colleagues on what's going on in Myanmar at the moment or what was going on then about a year ago. Do you think this kind of grassroots youth movement is likely to happen elsewhere or not? Let's start with you. Ajmain, what do you think?

Ajmain Naklib 29:06

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it already started in Pakistan and, you know, in parts in India, you know. And I think there's something someone mentioned in, you know, social media posts that revolution and freedom, these are contagious. I think these the protest in Bangladesh, this gave a lot of hope to the people in South Asia as whole regarding the situation in Myanmar. You know, I was reading this report from International Crisis Group, which was published in published today. Yeah. So there it was mentioned that in the Raim state now the Arakan army is now more in control of the middle and northern areas, which you know was not always the case during the whole refugee influx. So I cannot directly say whether you know this is an impact of the ongoing, you know, the previous protest and the ongoing protests that are happening in Bangladesh, but this might be the reason. But I think what's happening in Pakistan and you know, the protests in Bangladesh, in India, those were in a lot of ways, impacted by the courage and the determination of the students involved here is not just the students, yes, people from all walks of life. They, you know, went on the ground. They protested even, even the poorest of the poor and the richest of the

Adam Peter Lang 31:35

rich. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. Now, Rupert, you're I call you young, but you have the chance to reflect Uber on what's going on with your knowledge and also from your position, not actually being in Bangladesh at the moment. But do you see that there's likely to be some developments in the region as a result of this, or is this a matter for Bangladesh at the moment? How do you see that playing out? I'm going to pass over now to Camille first, perhaps. Would you like to follow up Camille with some questions, please?

Kamille Beye 32:13

Okay, Ajmain, thank you so much for the presentation. I would have said the same to Dr Rupa. I have several questions that I wanted to ask you just about the idea of revolution, one. So there are always songs associated with revolution. And I wanted to know, are there any special Bangladeshi artists that have inspired the young people to continue with their movement?

Ajmain Naklib 32:34

Yeah. You know, there were several artists, not just musicians. They were active musicians who were there on the ground, obviously, you know, so this created a whole drift, and, you know, division between the artists, because there were so many who did. There were some, I would say there were not so many. I mean, there were some who were there on the ground to protest the fascist regime. I can recall Hannan, who was detained because of a very powerful song he wrote and he composed. He was detained and then he got released later on. There was also this very famous and popular actress, and she's very has been vocal about many other issues, whose name is bad. And, you know, I saw her very, very active during the protests. And obviously there was some differences in opinion among the people in the, you know, in the industry, when there were people who were dying on the street, people who are getting detained. And there were some, you know, celebrities who were there to support the students. There were also some artists who went there to visit the, you know, infrastructures that were diminished or destructed during the whole protest, and they were shedding tears, the crocodile tears of the destruction for the destruction of those infrastructures, because during the last 15 years, they got benefited For the, you know, establishment of the previous regime. So their main priority was the protection of the regime itself and also the infrastructures. Their priority was not the students, but obviously they were really brave and talented artists who were there on the ground and also were, there were so many artists who, you know, spoke up on social media that also helped, because they also have national and international fan base. So, you know, it was not, you know, it started as a three. Little protest, but then it became a protest of the people of Bangladesh.

Adam Peter Lang 35:05

right? Yes. Now Rupa is back. Kamille, do you have any questions you'd like to ask Rupa?

Kamille Beye 35:13

Not really. My question is more for Ajmain, okay, actually, yeah. So my question is, so Professor Yunus has been propelled to leadership by the youth, basically. And I wanted to know what role do youth leaders have in helping him form the further reaches of his government. And then, of course, like, how will that affect education, climate, crime, etc, right?

Adam Peter Lang 35:38

That's a question for you. Ajmain.

Ajmain Naklib 35:41

sorry, I'm audible, yes, yeah, yeah. So, I think this interim government, and the Cabinet of this interim government is, you know, a cabinet that has a lot of responsibility on, you know, we had interim government before, and in in those cases, the responsibility was mostly to hold a free and fair election. But right now, obviously this is one of the agendas. But right now, the current expectation from the people of Bangladesh is for them to reconstruct the whole governance system. That is what they expect. Because we have seen a lot of corruption, a lot of money laundering, so many people have died in the hands of the previous regime. We have seen that. And you know, there's been a destruction of environment, the destruction of rivers and forests. You know, the construction of Rampal power plant was there. So there's a lot of responsibility on the interim government right now, and to be honest, the protests that are taking place right now, those are mostly to show the expectation they have from the government itself before, you know, before the interim government came in power during the previous regime, one the people could not really protest, because there was this risk of life, and also risk of Security, and also there was, there was this whole understanding that even if you protest, there's not going to be any you know, result of that, because the government is going to do whatever they want to be but right now, what you know, the people think is that if they can make their voices heard, there's a possibility it will get accepted. But even if it does not get accepted, there will be a discussion regarding this. And the cabinet in the interim government is actually filled with intellectuals, people who know what is happening in Bangladesh, people who come from academia, people who are lawyers, people who worked in different administrations. So the high expectation is there, and also the students. There's also two coordinators of the student movement who are now, you know, part of the interim government. Were part of the cabinet. They've been allocated different ministries, and they're also doing their work. So there's this, you know, there's always this gap. When I was growing up, I always saw this gap between the people and the government, and among those people there, there was youth. So right now, I can see the bridges being connected more than ever before. And I think seeing this, you know, it's very hard for people to even accept it. There were times, you know, right after fifth of August, it felt like a dream, like, you know, getting inside, you know, the parliament. The parliament has been closed for the general people for very long. So, you know, even be having the entrance to those institutions and those buildings is a lot, is a lot for the people of Bangladesh, obviously, there have been a lot of unrest because of that, you know, on Fifth of August, and you know, on sixth of August, but people now be have the sense of belonging in this country. And I think the youth also feel that the people who are the poorest of the poor, they also feel that their voices have been heard, and there they will be heard, and that is why the expectation is so high. And I think it will only get better, yeah.

Kamille Beye 35:46

Thank you.

Adam Peter Lang 36:06

Unconscious of time, and I just wondered if Stella had some follow up questions.

Stella Micheong Cheong 39:45

Okay, well, thank you, Rupa and Ajmain, I'm so impressed by your words and sharing your experience and Rupa, can I ask a quick question about the role of diaspora, Bangladesh diaspora, because I know I heard in terms of Arab spring, the Arab diaspora highly contributed to the Arab spring. How can I say series of anti-government protests in the early in the early 2010s at the time then I wonder, in this time, you are also looking at the Bangladesh that the anti-government protest in Bangladesh. So I wonder your emotion, your thought as a Bangladesh diaspora, but anyway, so, yeah, this is my question to you.

Rupa Huq 40:58

Yeah, no, thanks. It's a good question, I guess, yeah, the diaspora has a big role to play, especially when information is restricted in the country itself. And you mentioned the Arab Spring. I mean, sadly, there wasn't really any long term anything that came out of that. It was an exciting moment when it happened. So we need to make this not like that. I mean the other parallels I could see, and I've done a new thing, I'm writing for the new states, and I can send that on when that comes out. I also mentioned in the Tiananmen Square, there was sort of echoes of that when we saw the very brave I was at school in those days. It was a long time ago, but the students standing up to the tanks there in China, and also when the Saddam Hussein statues were being demolished. That's what it kind of feels like looking at the pictures of the father of the nation, these huge, enormous, larger than life size statues being toppled. I mean, it's maybe sad that this guy's legacy has been tarnished by his daughter. I think it's not him people have the issue with, but it's the daughter who originally, when she came in, I think there was a lot of hope around her. She's been Prime Minister twice, but just the more and more subsequent elections, there were no other candidates. I mean, that's just not normal. And maybe that's someone from the diaspora who can see that. But hang on, this is not normal. So that's what I mean. I went in 2017 the time before, and one of the groups said, oh, let's go to the university. My friend, my cousin, is a history lecturer there. And you know, in the staff room they had these portraits. And I just thought, That's not normal. You wouldn't get that in the UK. I was an academic for many years. You wouldn't have portraits hanging of these historical figures. And it's I think they had to be. Every public building had to have that reverence. I mean, so maybe sometimes it does take people from diaspora to compare. Hang on, this just doesn't happen anywhere else.

Stella Micheong Cheong 43:00

All right. Yeah, it makes sense. Thank you. And maybe, as me also Shubham, you can respond to my question, because I wonder about your experience and your thought on social media. Because Ajmain, I remember you told us the national media as a propaganda machine, but what about the social media and what role did social media and technology play in organizing students protest, in bringing about political change in Bangladesh. Do you think this present a new model for citizen led movement in the age of artificial intelligence?

Subham Barua 43:57

Yeah, I think Ajmain will agree with me when I say like, primarily, most of the protests, when it comes to like, the logistical coordination of it, it did happen through various social media posts, particularly like in Bangladesh, Facebook is like the big thing like most of the protest or even like the coordinators, when they had to make announcements of where to go, where To protest, what time to meet, it would be primarily through social media. And that's why you saw the government kind of desperately take down the internet away. So that's number one. Number two is, well, even though, like, you know, a majority of the population, I say, above the age of 28 might not be as technologically social media savvy everyone under that age is so one of the rules that you talked about the diaspora, right? Our main, at least my main function, was to make sure when Ajman was there protesting and seeing all this brutality unfold, he would send me clips, or some of my other friends would send me clips, or would send me first-hand accounts. And I would make sure I would email all the relevant news authorities here. Or. Would connect to a lot of the connections I would have here. So that's only possible through the evidence that was gathered, either through various social media posts, right, or remnants. So these are not when we talk about social media. I think it really gets intertwined with entertainment, but for the purposes of archiving important revolutions like this, or for the purposes of actually acting as like first-hand documentary, it's played a pivotal role in our revolution.

Ajmain Naklib 45:29

Yeah, if I can add on to that, I think you know, the presence of young people, especially the protesters, you know, on social media did have a very significant impact. As you know, Shubam also mentioned. So there was this movement where, you know, August is called the month of mourning, because, you know, on 15 of August, the father of the of the nation was murdered. So, you know, the army regime used to celebrate it with, you know, it was a very big celebration, but because of the ongoing protest and the murder of so many students and young people, and just people in general, the protesters did not agree to, you know, celebrate the month of morning. So, you know, like during the month of morning, mostly people, what they do is they change their profile photo with, you know, black with a black, colored photo. But as people were dying and blood was being shed, the students, and mostly, you know, the protesters. They change their profile photo with red color. So this showed that they're not ready to mourn for someone who passed away like 50 years ago. They're going to around 50 years ago. They're going to like no one can force them to mourn for someone when there's already people dying in the name of a particular party. So there was that. So this had a very big pressure, because then the government, or people who used to work in the government, they got to know that people who are against this regime is a lot because one of the reasons I think this regime fell is because she has Sina had only loyalists around her during the last 15 years whenever you know, she had disagreements with people who probably wanted the best for the country, but did not agree with her, or even individuals like Doctor Kamal Hussain, who was, you know, an ally of Sheik Mujibur Rahman, the father of the nation. When they did not agree on a particular topic, she used to shove people away. She used to push people away. And this is what has created this vacuum in the whole cabinet that she only had loyalists, she only had people who would agree with her. So this is why she did not have get the reality check. But the social media at that point, you know, such a crucial time of the protest. It gave the people in the government a reality check that they needed long time back, and, you know, there were, there was also this hashtag called reverse brain drain, which people used to, you know, the students or the young people who live abroad or are studying abroad, they start posting about their stories, about what they want to do and the type of country they want to see, as Bangladesh, or, you know, as Bangladesh is. So this created a very big pressure for the government to resign, and social media played a very big role in it.

Adam Peter Lang 48:52

Thank you very much. Now, Dr Rupa has had to leave us, and we're coming to the end of what's been a fascinating session, and we could go on for much longer. But I'm going to conclude now by saying, Ajmain, if there's anything that you want to share with us by sending messages or information to put on our podcast, information, we'd be very, very happy to receive it. And Rupa Huq mentioned she's got another article coming out. I think she said the New Scientist. So our readers and our listeners will be very interested in following these stories, but I'm now going to pass back to Kamille to conclude our episode today. Thank you very much everybody.

Kamille Beye 49:34

Thank you so much. Adam, thank you so much for a wonderful podcast. It was such a great and enriching experience. Dr Rupa Huq, who has joined us, and Ajmain Adil Naklib and Subham Barua, we appreciate you so much for your time. It was a pleasure hearing about you guys today and what's going on in Bangladesh and the different perspectives about the community in the UK, and, of course, the activism of the youth in Bangladesh, as well as, people in the diaspora likes who are helping to get the message out about the activities and the atrocities that were committed. So we thank you all. I’m closing the episode. I am Kamille Beye. Thanks for listening to Conversations4Citizenship. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Be sure to subscribe to Conversations4Citizenship. And look for us on X @c4c_ed. A transcript of today’s conversation with Rupa and Ajmain can be found www. conversations4citizenship.com. This episode of Conversations4Citizenship was produced by me, Kamille Beye, Adam Lang and Stella Cheong, recorded and sound mixed by Stella Cheong. Many thanks. Take good care. Bye!

EPISODE SUMMARY

This episode delves into Bangladesh's recent political upheaval, where youth-led protests led to Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina's resignation after 15 years. They explore how youth activism catalyzed change, drawing parallels with global movements and highlighting the role of social media in organizing protests despite government-imposed internet blackouts. The conversation also touches on the diaspora's role in amplifying these events and envisions a hopeful future for Bangladesh as it navigates this new democratic era.

EPISODE NOTES

In this gripping episode of Conversations4Citizenship, we navigates the seismic political upheaval in Bangladesh, marked by the resignation of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina after 15 years of authoritarian rule. The episode unfolds against the backdrop of widespread student protests that escalated into deadly clashes with government forces, highlighting the formidable power of youth activism. Dr. Rupa Huq, a UK Member of Parliament with deep ties to the Bangladeshi diaspora, and Ajmain Adil Naklib, a young environmentalist from Dhaka, join the discussion to provide invaluable insights into this pivotal moment in history. They explore the birth of a new democratic era in Bangladesh, the role of global citizenship, and the broader implications for the region.

From the power of youth activism to the role of global citizenship in shaping these events, our conversation explores the seismic shift in Bangladesh's political landscape. Dr. Huq shares her perspective on the significant role of the Bangladeshi diaspora in amplifying global awareness about these events, drawing parallels to historical movements like Tiananmen Square and the Arab Spring. Ajmain offers a first-hand account of the protests, emphasizing the unprecedented unity among diverse groups in Bangladesh and the crucial role of social media in organizing and sustaining the movement. Together, they paint a vivid picture of a nation on the brink of transformation, driven by a new generation determined to reshape its future. This episode is a compelling exploration of how grassroots movements can ignite change and challenge entrenched political systems.

This episode is hosted by Dr. Adam Lang. Please subscribe to the podcast through Apple, Google, Spotify, or Amazon Music. You may also follow @c4c_ed on Twitter. We look forward to hearing your feedback. If you would like to explore participating in our podcast and submit your blog post to the C4C, do not hesitate to reach out through the online participation form or email us at conversations4citizenship@gmail.com

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